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THOMPSON: The Despicable Me franchise has made billions of dollars at the box office, and it’s spawned a second gigantic franchise with a series of movies starring those chattering, yellow, pill-shaped oddballs known as the Minions. I’m Stephen Thompson. Here to talk about Minions & Monsters on NPR’s Pop Culture Happy Hour is Reanna Cruz. They’re a freelance music and culture journalist. Hey, Reanna.
REANNA CRUZ: Bello, Stephen.
THOMPSON: Oh, boy. We’re gonna do this.
CANDICE LIM: You stole mine.
THOMPSON: Also with us is former host of Slate’s internet culture podcast, ICYMI, and former Pop Culture Happy Hour producer, Candice Lim. Hey, Candice.
LIM: Hello.
THOMPSON: So nice to see you, buddy. For those who don’t know the Minions’ backstory, they’re silly little yellow chatterboxes who’ve existed since the dawn of time, with the express purpose of supporting the worst villains around. But they’re not villainous in and of themselves, in part because they have a habit of accidentally killing the various ogres and masterminds they’re trying to serve. This is the third Minions movie and another prequel, this time set in 1920s Hollywood. Their hijinks make them natural silent film actors. But as talkies take over, they struggle to stay, until one of them ends up conjuring some cute but deadly monsters using a dead wizard’s old spellbook. Minions & Monsters is in theaters now. Reanna Cruz, I’m going to start with you. What’d you think?
CRUZ: I loved it.
LIM: That’s right.
CRUZ: To the surprise of nobody–
LIM: That’s right.
CRUZ: –the Minions are here to save cinema.
THOMPSON: You are our Minions correspondent and our Jackass correspondent. And I feel like the two orbit each other like a binary star.
CRUZ: Oh, absolutely. They’re kind of the same movie if you like butt jokes and pratfalls.
THOMPSON: And a tight 90 minutes.
CRUZ: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, Minions & Monsters, what’s not to love? You know, If you like Buster Keaton, if you like Orson Welles, if you’re a fan of the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still–
THOMPSON: Somewhere, Orson Welles absolutely just turned over in his grave.
[LAUGHTER]
LIM: And he said, turn on the DVD player. I got to watch this movie, Minions & Monsters.
CRUZ: Absolutely. It is rife with references. I love a reference, you know, in a movie. I mean, I think I’m one of those few people that– references can sustain a film, a 90-minute one specifically. And I was laughing the entire time. I was really chuffed, watching the Minions. I mean, I love the Minions, you know. This movie is a love letter to cinema. I laughed. I cried. Minions & Monsters, it–
THOMPSON: You cried?
CRUZ: I did, because I love movies.
LIM: Cinema can do that to you, Stephen.
THOMPSON: I’m a big crier. But what made you cry?
CRUZ: I love movies.
LIM: That’s right. That’s right.
CRUZ: I was sitting in the theater–
THOMPSON: The presence of flickering images on the screen.
LIM: Or, like, the bromantic friendships that have persisted through the, like, history of Hollywood. Henry and James, they invented cinema.
CRUZ: Exactly. All-timers, all-timers there. I don’t know. Like, as soon as the movie started, we get the Eadweard Muybridge, a man riding a horse, and the Minions are right there in the clip. Right immediately, I said, oh, this is a movie made specifically for me, film lover who loves the Minions. And watching through, it was just a riot. I thought it was really clever, honestly. I feel like they threw a lot at the wall, but I liked everything that they threw. And I think there’s enough in there for people that are not six years old to love.
THOMPSON: OK. How about you, Candice?
LIM: Yeah. Stephen, of course, I agree! I love this movie. So I actually have had a very fraught relationship with Minions ever since they first came out in the first Despicable Me movie. I was like, they’re so corny. They’re for millennials who can’t let a hot topic go. And then as I approach that age now, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. I get them. They represent my people. And so I had weirdly high expectations for this movie. And guess what? It beat them. This movie–
CRUZ: Exactly.
LIM: –is better than I expected.
CRUZ: Exactly.
LIM: And I think on a very surface level, it’s just because it, like, reminded me how playful and, like, visually satisfying Minions as an entity is. And I was very locked in. I didn’t know where it was going, and that intrigued me. It was mystique, I loved it. I just think that there is actually something beautiful about this film, which is that they make this conjecture that cinema was shepherded by these two Minions named Henry and James, who were essentially a buddy comedy. They’re best friends. And I looked at them, and I said, that’s Matt Damon, Ben Affleck. Like, that’s Macklemore and Ryan Lewis. That’s Lennon and McCartney. Like, this–
THOMPSON: You know, the great duos throughout history. Yes.
LIM: Yes, exactly. Like, this is what that’s about. And so I loved it, even though it’s– I will admit, there is a lot. They do throw a lot at the wall, and I could take away one or two things. I’m happy. Guys, I loved it.
THOMPSON: Aw.
CRUZ: Stephen, your face as me and Candice were both talking tells me you have a differing opinion.
LIM: And by the way, during Reanna’s run, Stephen takes a huge chug of that liter of Diet Coke. Because he’s like, I gotta– I gotta prep.
[LAUGHTER]
THOMPSON: Look, I’m not here to yuck anybody’s yum. If you love this franchise and if people listening who love this franchise or who have kids who love this franchise, clearly, two devotees of this franchise are here to tell you that this is in line with the quality of the other films.
CRUZ: It’s the best one yet.
LIM: I do think so. I do think so.
THOMPSON: That’s interesting to me. Because I thought Minions, Rise of Gru– I came in as a Minions skeptic, as somebody who had seen the Despicable Me movies and felt that the Minions were more like cilantro, right? Like, they’re seasoning. They’re not necessarily what you want to build an entire film around. It’s a lot of the same thing. And I thought Minions, Rise of Gru had this kind of visual style to it and brought in different characters and let the Minions at times be supporting players in their own movie a little bit. And this definitely centers them. And for me, I just– I wasn’t as down with it. I did enjoy, as Reanna described, a lot of the, like, efforts to retrofit them into early cinema. I mean, as soon as you’re seeing the Minion, you know, with the man on the horse and that stuff, you’re like, one of those Minions is going to take a rocket to the eye. Like, I see where this is going.
CRUZ: I clapped.
THOMPSON: But for me, references without necessarily new jokes on top of them, it’s not really my particular flavor. You know, but at the same time, I mean, who am I to argue with two devotees? I did find myself constantly thinking about the Minions canon and how this kind of differs from the Minions canon. Because I had a whole conversation with our wonderful producer, Liz Metzger, before we were taping. Because I was like, in Minions, parentheses 2015, we learned that the Minions were, like, trapped in an ice cave from the 1810s to the 1960s, but now we have Minions in the ’20s. But apparently, this is a different tribe of Minions, which– I’m sorry, people– raises the question of where the Minions went in the 1930s and ’40s.
CRUZ: See, but Pierre Coffin, the director, has said in interviews that the Minions did not serve Hitler, and this is a different tribe. Right. And I like the fact that the Minions, though, are just on a side quest in this movie. That’s what I want out of the Minions movies, to be honest. And that’s what I think lacked a little bit in Minions, The Rise of Gru, is that I felt like the plot was too plotty, for lack of a better term, you know? I think there was a little bit too much happening, a little bit too much effort was put into making the Minions fit into this larger story that they had crafted. And I like how this movie is Minions focused, because I do come to these movies for the Minions. I don’t come for anything else. I come for the little short yellow guys to say funny stuff. Like, sorry, that’s just what I’m here for. And that’s why I like this movie, because it’s literally Minions side quest movie. This is what I’ve always wanted from the Despicable Me franchise.
LIM: Yeah. It’s funny because you guys had mentioned Jackass. I actually was thinking a little bit about the Scary Movie that came out this summer and how that is a movie that uses references, I have to say, kind of in a similar way. Like, in this movie, they’re doing, shot by shot, Citizen Kane. And I loved it. Scary Movie, they’re referencing Get Out. And I think the critique there was kind of just that they’re making references but not making a point with it. And I’m not going to sit here and say, like, the Minions are making a point when they reference Modern Times.
THOMPSON: This is revolutionary cinema.
LIM: Exactly. But I think it’s because they are now entering Shrekdom of knowing that they are ironic and they are– they have a cultural cachet of stupidity. And they are able to rise one inch above that stupidity and be like, watch me. Because guess what? The Citizen Kane little parallel, they actually did it quite amazingly. It was actually quite beautiful. In terms of things in this film that I will say are questionable, in terms of timeline and whatever–
THOMPSON: Oh, boy.
LIM: I mean, Stephen, did you want to talk about the feminist of it all, the suffragettes of it all?
THOMPSON: Oh, my gosh. I majored in journalism and history in college, and my history major was furious! [LAUGHS] This movie is set in 1927. And for absolutely no reason, there’s a whole subplot involving a suffragette, whose work has been done for her by this point. Did news not get to LA that seven years earlier, the 19th Amendment was ratified? I hope somebody got fired for that blunder! You know, I– I–
[LAUGHTER]
THOMPSON: Seriously. I sat there, like, why are my arms folded?
LIM: I know.
THOMPSON: This is a–
LIM: I know.
THOMPSON: –Minions movie. But people.
LIM: I know.
THOMPSON: People.
LIM: And the thing is, like, that entire plotline also– OK. I will say, there is another critique of this movie that I wonder if anyone else cares about, which is, there are actually, like, too many monsters in this film, too many villains. In some of the marketing you’ve been seeing, there’s, like, this orange blob with a bunch of eyes. I didn’t know what that was.
CRUZ: Irene.
THOMPSON: Irene.
LIM: And basically, Irene is what I would describe as, like, a collab between orange Julius and Cerave lotion. They don’t really come until the very end of act three. I could have taken them out.
THOMPSON: No.
LIM: I could have taken them out, to be honest.
THOMPSON: Well, the film is called Minions & Monsters, and the monsters don’t even show up until halfway through.
LIM: But there’s so many monsters.
CRUZ: I think there’s two things about that, though. One is that I’ve been watching a lot of the older Toho Godzilla kaiju movies. And there are so many monsters in them that serve zero purpose. They come in and out. They have no backstory. They’re just there to, like, cause havoc for a few scenes and then leave. Minions & Monsters is, for all intents and purposes, a kaiju movie in that regard. And that’s part of the reason why I loved it, part of this larger ode to cinema that they’re doing in the way that the story is structured, very Godzilla coded, in my eyes. And second, I don’t know. I think that, like, the movie exists in this kind of scattershot timeline where everything is kind of the same. I don’t know. Like, there really is no timeline distinction here. Like, I don’t really mind that the suffragettes are there. Do I think it was random? Absolutely. But also, there’s, like, a Merlin-type character, conjuring monsters. And it’s on the same timeline because that’s the inciting incident to get them to go to Hollywood. So you’re putting too much weight on the timeline of the Minions, when I think, really, it, like, is just the animators doing literally whatever they want. And that creativity, you could see come through. And also, last thing– the fact that the big, bad villain is a ball of slime I think is really smart, low key, because it’s kind of positing that cinema is the antidote to, you know, the consumption slime–
LIM: AI slop. Yeah.
CRUZ: Right, like the consumption slime AI slop economy that we find ourselves in. That’s me big braining about–
LIM: No, no, no, but you’re onto something. Because, first off, Reanna, I think what you’re trying to say is, actually, Pierre Coffin said, the suffragettes, their work is never over. He’s right.
CRUZ: Feminist movie.
LIM: Number two, when I looked at the title, Minions & Monsters, I really genuinely thought, oh, they’re going to say that the real monster is the industry of film and TV. And, weirdly, you’re right. They’re saying no, no, no, no. It is the thing that will save us.
CRUZ: Mm-hmm. Right. Because I think, like, you know, we live in this era, especially with the young children that this movie is designed to serve, in a way, where NeeDoh, the little, like, balls of slime that people can, like, hold and grasp, those are like the king of entertainment, right, for children of a certain age. This movie is saying that actually, what you really need to do is link up with your homies and engage in communal creativity. Like, don’t give in to– I don’t know– the slime wars. I’m very passionate about this. But I saw that in the movie.
LIM: Yeah. You should be.
THOMPSON: This is definitely the summer in which I see AI commentary in everything, from Backrooms to Toy Story 5. But I’m very impressed with what you have managed to read into this film. I think what this film does continue, in terms of trends that I’ve seen play out over and over again in movies I’ve seen this summer, is this kind of IP extension where you just reach a point where the movie is just supposed to be a fun hang with characters you’ve seen before–
CRUZ: Totally.
THOMPSON: –and that it doesn’t necessarily have to fit into this, like, larger ranking of these, you know, points in the franchise’s history. And the conversation that we had around Toy Story 5, where I just ultimately was like, I don’t care how it ranks next to 1, 2, 3, and 4– I’m just happy to revisit these characters. And if you’re happy to revisit these characters– same goes for the latest iteration of Scary Movie. The same goes for the same– latest iteration of Jackass, you know, where we’ve talked about all these different films that have come out this year. And this film is ultimately– does it perfectly fit canonically with the other Despicable Me and Minions movies? Not necessarily, but if you’re into these characters, it’s a fun hang.
LIM: Yeah. I think there are two things I am, like, deeply impressed about when it comes to this movie. First off, from a marketing perspective, I really think this film does a good job of being like the Dwayne The Rock Johnson of, like, four quadrant marketing of– like, there’s eight-year-olds behind me, like, so excited. There’s me chronically online, meathead, loving this. And then there’s, like, old guys next to me, being like, I remember when the talkies were silent. This is my jam. And I’m like, wow, like, you really did that? But–
THOMPSON: Wait, are these people 115 years old?
LIM: LA is different. LA water is different, Stephen. They’re at the Grove, and they’re ghosts. But the other thing is– I can’t believe I’m giving them for this. The Minions & Monsters movie does a really good job of acknowledging the Minions’s place in the film industry while acknowledging how we got there and its history. And what I really mean by that is, there is a scene where they become the most popular actors in town, and they, like, become paparazzi famous. They’re getting, like, you know, stuffed animals made out of them. And I’m like, that’s literally what happened in 2010 when the first Despicable Me came out. And I’m like, there is a meta-ness, there’s a self-awareness while acknowledging the, you know, Safety Last! and the Singing in the Rain that came before. And I’m like, you can’t say they don’t know their history. Good job.
CRUZ: I could see that, Candice. I think there’s–
LIM: Thank you so much.
CRUZ: –a meta-commentary happening, for sure.
THOMPSON: Oh, absolutely. These films are nothing if not self-aware. Well, I think we can agree that this is a film that is in theaters now.
[LAUGHTER]
LIM: The greatest film in theaters now. What are you talking about, Stephen?
[LAUGHTER]
THOMPSON: Up next, what is making us happy this week.
THOMPSON: Now it’s time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, what’s making us happy this week. Reanna Cruz, what do you got?
CRUZ: I know I just went on this long tangent against slop and how slop is infecting our content that we consume, but unfortunately, I am tapped into Love Island. I–
LIM: There you go.
CRUZ: –haven’t watched it prior to when the boys were introduced to Casa Amor, where the couples get split up and the production brings in a bunch of new bombshells to tempt the guys into abandoning their current couple. I was very anti Love Island prior to that. And now I am hooked. I am watching it every night out of the week, except for Wednesdays, because that’s when we don’t get any new content.
THOMPSON: I mean, you’re eventually going to run out around the year 3500.
CRUZ: Right? I have a lot to catch up on, Stephen. I am very tapped in. I see it as a sociological experiment. I’m watching how normal people move about the world, and it scares me. And I can’t look away. It’s like a train wreck. I’ve turned other people on to it too by explaining it that way. My little brother, who has no interest in watching any content but chess videos on YouTube, is now watching Love Island every single night with me and my partner.
LIM: That’s right.
CRUZ: So I think what’s making me happy this week is, in fact, Love Island.
LIM: Trinity and Bryce forever. That’s all I wanted to say.
CRUZ: Brinity moment, absolutely.
THOMPSON: So that is Love Island USA, streaming on Peacock. Thank you, Reanna Cruz. Candice Lim, what do you got?
LIM: So what’s making me happy is actually from Paw Patrol, The Dino Movie. Hold on. Hold on. Stay on the line. Stay on the line.
[LAUGHTER]
THOMPSON: Really did not know what you were gonna say there.
LIM: I know. So the Backstreet Boys, yeah? They have made a song for the movie Paw Patrol, The Dino Movie. And it’s written by Ed Sheeran and Savan Kotecha.
CRUZ: Wow.
LIM: Savan worked on a bunch of Ariana Grande songs. He wrote “What Makes You Beautiful” by One Direction. And basically, they have put together a song, and it is called “Bottle Up” by the Backstreet Boys. I need you guys to listen to it right now.
LIM: [BACKSTREET BOYS, “BOTTLE UP”] Take this moment
LIM: And bottle up this feeling Take this moment And bottle up this feeling
LIM: Guys, is that not a hit? Is that not an absolute banger?
CRUZ: You put Savan with a boy band, and it’s over. It’s lights out.
LIM: Yeah. We’re so back. This song is– it’s so funky. And it’s kind of like on the edge of Bruno Mars without falling into “Uptown Funk” territory. And it kind of does remind me of, like, Pharrell Williams and how some of the songs he made for those Despicable Me soundtracks were, like, way too good for no reason. Like, sometimes when I hear “Double Life” from Despicable Me 4, I’m like, whoa. Whoa.
THOMPSON: I mean, I’m also hearing a little bit– I mean, not to do the inevitable Backstreet Boys, NSYNC comparisons, but I’m definitely getting Justin Timberlake Trolls movie soundtrack.
LIM: Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, that’s what’s making me happy, “Bottle Up” by the Backstreet Boys.
THOMPSON: Awesome. Wow. Thank you, Candice Lim.
LIM: You’re welcome.
THOMPSON: So this is going to be a hairpin turn from the Backstreet Boys. We’re heading into a holiday weekend that celebrates all things American. So, naturally, what is making me happy is a French-Canadian duo that plays truly weird, mostly instrumental art rock music while clad in giant papier maché masks.
CRUZ: Yup, yup.
THOMPSON: Reanna is pumping their fist right now. Last week, the band Angine de Poitrine became one of the most unlikely artists ever to crack the Billboard albums chart when both of their albums, Volume I and Volume II, made their debuts. Here is a little sample from Volume II from a song called “Mata Zyklek.”
[ANGINE DE POITRINE, “MATA ZYKLEK”]
[VOCALIZING]
THOMPSON: The word of mouth on Angine de Poitrine is still spreading. If you have not seen this band’s performance on KEXP that’s kind of gone viral, I highly recommend it. It’s so theatrical and silly and weirdly hypnotic. If you are, like, folding socks, listening to Angine de Poitrine is going to make that so much fun. It’s rock and roll. It’s weird art. It’s so fun. That’s Angine de Poitrine and their new album, Volume II. And that is what is making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Reanna Cruz, Candice Lim, thanks so much for being here.
LIM: Thank you.
CRUZ: Thanks so much for having us. I feel like this was a very spirited conversation.
LIM: Spirited, spiritual.
CRUZ: Exactly what we need for the Minions.
THOMPSON: It really is. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger. Hafsa Fathima, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I’m Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.
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